This has been brewing for so long that I am kind of resigned to this fate. And like I said, there are things still off the record that makes it appear inevitible. Your point about turbulence in NCAA is spot on; if the money leaves D2, then maybe D2 becomes more like the NAIA? Or maybe talks of a merger get resurrected? I think things might look very different for EVERYONE in 10 years. I knew there were coaches on staff at Westmont who were solidly against going D2 UNTIL they also heard about the other things that are off the record. I had a nice chat with one of the head coaches at Easter, and this coach has completely come around in the last few months because of it. Sad to leave the NAIA and it's wonderful national tournaments, but in agreement that it is the right thing to do institutionally at this point.
Of all the things I've heard people say in the last few years, none have ever said "oooh, D2, let's do that!". It's been "we'd be better off with the schools in the PacWest, our old GSAC brethren". It has become an "institutional fit" argument, and it's hard to argue against. Too many schools in the current GSAC can't afford, or aren't interested in, COVID testing. And the tail wagging the dog, athletically/academically.
Yeah, I have low expectations of ever reaching the 8 team National Tournament in D2. I still look forward to attending the NAIA tournament myself. Even if Westmont makes a decent run in the regionals there might not even be a calendar conflict, because in D2 they are spread over a few weeks, and are more local to me. So, watch Westmont play until they are eliminated and then go to KC. If it were this year, there would have been a conflict between the NAIA Championship and the D2 Quarter Finals. That's it.
I really want to see Westmont playing for National Championships in every sport, every year. In nearly every sport in the NAIA, Westmont has a shot. Only time will tell about our prospects in D2, but I am not optimistic. Over the long haul, we will compete for PacWest Championships, and hope to win a game or two in the Regionals. Maybe once every ten years have a HOPE to make it to the 8 team Naitonals.
APU still hasn't recovered from their times of trouble a few years ago. I still haven't seen their 20-21 enrollment figures but 19-20 they admitted only around 650 freshmen. That's tiny, for them.
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In all the talk about Westmont we've skipped over the other D2 candidates.
Thomas More was known and expected. Should be a slam dunk.
But USC Beaufort was a little bit of a surprise. We knew they got a conference invite, but they don't seem to have enough team sports to qualify for D2. I am not an expert on this so someone correct me if I'm wrong. So I guess we'll find out whether the membership committee still cares about their rules.
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USC Beaufort will be adding men's and women's basketball in 2023-24 as part of the invite to the Peach Belt Conference.
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Right, so they won't be eligible until 2023.
I remember that Cal State San Marcos kept getting denied membership even though they had enough teams, they didn't have their own gym. So if D2 really needed them I can see how they might waive the requirement, but for credibility's and consistancy's sake they really shouldn't.
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bronto wrote:
I'm still a fan of the NAIA, and still a fan of Westmont. But after next year there will not be an overlap there. 🙁
Personally:
I am not excited. But I am not depressed either. AD Dave Odell has assured me and others that we wouldn't be doing this if we weren't going to do this right, and attain similar levels of success at the D2 level. We'll see about that. The other former GSAC members in the PacWest have had what we could call "sporadic success". Both APU and Point Loma have made it to the Final Four, but usually win no more than a game or two in the regionals. So yes, we'll see. The silver lining is that we'll be playing our historic rivals again in the PacWest: APU, Biola, Concordia, Fresno Pacific, and Point Loma.
as usual, you've got a timely analysis of the situation. Given the constant trickle of D2's up to D1, I disagree with your pessimism in terms of competitiveness. If Westmont manages the transition to D2 with the kind of competence their athletic department has demonstrated consistently, I think they have an opportunity to really be successful. That said, D2 is challenging and consistently making the final four is just a bigger ask.
In terms of the GSAC vs. PacWest, I have to agree with Westmont's administration. They're a much better fit with their former conference mates than programs like OUAZ. Cheaper travel, better fit, and proof of my old axiom: teams may change leagues and affliations, but eventually, they tend to keep playing the same schools they've always played.
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My definition of success is broader than just basketball. Westmont has been a consistent Top 20 Director's Cup program for the last 10 years. It will be very difficult to replicate that in D2. The D2 recruiting window is very narrow compared to NAIA, and programs with more assistant coaches are able to cover more ground in a shorter time in order to get those players. I hope I am wrong, but there may be a rude awakening coming.
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bronto wrote:
My definition of success is broader than just basketball. Westmont has been a consistent Top 20 Director's Cup program for the last 10 years. It will be very difficult to replicate that in D2. The D2 recruiting window is very narrow compared to NAIA, and programs with more assistant coaches are able to cover more ground in a shorter time in order to get those players. I hope I am wrong, but there may be a rude awakening coming.
I think the key piece is sorting out NCAA compliant recruiting/scholarship systems across sports. You can do what good NAIA programs do in terms of scholarships, but you have to reorganize it and make sure athletics and NCAA compliance is integrated into your admissions and financial aid/institutional budgeting. If anyone can do it, it's Westmont, but it's a big lift and likely the expertise to do it isn't completely in the building...
Also, you're probably right, being top 20 Director's Cup every year is a BIG ask in D2. But top 40? that would still be awfully good. My experience is that most schools get tripped up when they try and stick with what's always worked in a system where the rules are subtly different.
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Besides the previously-known Lyon, Carlow is also entering exploratory D3 membership this fall. https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Mar2022D3Memb_Report.pdf
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D2 membership decisions are out.
All three new membership candidates accepted. That would be Thomas More, Westmont, and USCB. I think USCB is a surprise since I don't think they had enough sports to qualify. Another surprise is that in Westmont's announcement, we'll apparently be NCCAA members for the transition years. We never have before, and have always considered their tournament a boobie prize for not making the NAIA tournament.
Allen University, Edward Waters advance to provisional year 2. I think they both were held back last year?
https://athletics.westmont.edu/news/2022/7/14/NCAA_Division_II.aspx
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In USCB's announcement, they say they will be adding men's and women's basketball in 2023-24.
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Thomas More's announcement.
https://thomasmore.prestosports.com/general/2022-23/releases/20220713k3csyr
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Roosevelt exploring D2:
https://www.rooseveltlakers.com/general/2022-23/releases/20220802ie3iaj
Interesting that they are being so open about it. Usually there's no announcement until it's approved, or at least application submitted.
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To be fair, I find this announcement surprising. And if successfully approved, Roosevelt will get the Thomas More treatment (meaning they will join the NCAA D-II ranks with provisional status to the GLIAC, although they would still compete in the CCAC during next season)
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jlog3000 wrote:
To be fair, I find this announcement surprising. And if successfully approved, Roosevelt will get the Thomas More treatment (meaning they will join the NCAA D-II ranks with provisional status to the GLIAC, although they would still compete in the CCAC during next season)
That's totally normal. Westmont has been accepted into the PacWest already as well.
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Hey Bronto,
Do you think Vanguard is likely to follow Westmont (and all those other guys) to D2 as well?
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